By Kiowa
The last few days have felt like Jamin and I took a trip to an industrial-sized clothes dryer and jumped inside. Exciting, exhausting and potentially asphyxiating. All of this due to the news that Ink has been one of the most downloaded movies in the world since it hit all of the BitTorrent sites. Advocates from both sides of the table have come out swinging with their thoughts, and some sources have been suspiciously quiet. What do we make of all of this madness? Here are my thoughts, as they’ve been digested over a thread on Reddit.com and other places.
Here we are in the dryer… and damn if it isn’t getting hot in here.
1. Amazing exposure? Heck yes.
No question here that Ink wouldn’t be abuzz across many forums, blogs and film websites this week without the enormous boost to #16 on the IMDb MovieMeter due to the piracy.
2. Raking in the dough? Yes and no.
Our direct sales have quadrupled and a decent number of donations (still nothing comparable to 500,000 downloads) have poured into our website, which we are very thankful for. Unfortunately there is no way to tell if the direct sales are coming from those who downloaded or those who saw it on Netflix and want to own a copy. Still, if each person who downloaded the film would come and contribute $1, we could pay off this film and have a budget for the next one.
3. Still to early to tell the effects of this? Absolutely.
Nothing in the film world ultimately happens over night and it will take several months to a year to quantify all of this so it’s entirely too early to take a solid stance either way, but I do think there’s some value in getting the discussion going about piracy which is why I’m spending time on Reddit.com and writing this blog.
4. Is Hollywood oddly silent on this whole thing? Yes.
Not only can’t we get any attention in the mainstream industry press, you would think that a tiny indie film with over 500,000 downloads in a week would demonstrate enough of an audience for a distributor to step on board. Distributors are looking for films that are easy to market and that have an audience. The downloads have proven, unequivocally, that Ink has a huge audience yet the crickets are still chirping on US distribution. My theory is this: distributors don’t dare step up and validate the pirate community as an audience. They must keep their staunch stance against them, and to pick up Ink now would mean they’re saying “wow, this really is an audience.”
5. Why won’t Hollywood recognize the pirate community as an audience? They don’t pay.
So this is the real issue I’m grappling with. What is piracy all about? I’ve come up with three ideas: 1.) People want stuff for free, and/or 2.) People want instant and easy access, and/or 3.) People will only pay for what they like. Which one of these is true? I encourage anyone who has illegally downloaded a film to step up with your thoughts. The unfortunate truth in the music industry is that, for the most part, people just want things for free. Is this also true with movie downloads? How will it impact both in the long run?
6. If the download community wants to send a real message and be recognized as an audience, here’s how:
* For those out there who download because you want easy access to something you can’t otherwise get (i.e. you’re outside the US and movies take forever to get to you, which we completely understand), then please do the download community a favor and track down the filmmakers and give them a few bucks.
* For those of you who only want to pay for what you like, please find a way to support your favorite artists as best you can. This will also send an extremely strong message to Hollywood to make better films and not just expect everyone to keep digesting a huge cafeteria of re-makes and franchise films.
* For those of you who expect things to be free, please consider how flawed that thinking is. Do you expect groceries, clothing and other commodities to be free? Making Ink is the single most difficult thing I’ve ever done and I can guarantee that every artist who crosses the finish line with a completed project feels the same. If the answer is truly that people expect things for free then the logical conclusion is that no one will take any financial risk in this industry and eventually there will be nothing to pirate. Talk about the law of diminishing returns.
This is a new era and no one knows which end is up right now. If instant file-sharing is truly the next step in film distribution, then there still needs to be a financial model in place that works. All anyone wants to do is to be able to move on and make another movie. That will be impossible if the world expects things for free. Or, all our movies will be paid for by huge corporate sponsors and littered with product placement – is that really a better alternative? Do we really want The Storytellers in Ink to be eating a Big Mac and swilling Coke after every fight? Probably not. I’m not claiming to know any answers here, I just want to put it up for discussion so please share your thoughts below and we’ll continue to provide updates.
The coolest thing to come out of the piracy so far? This incredible illustration from a new fan who watched via download and spent 6 hours drawing this for us. Thank you Shane Lees.
Absolutely wonderful post. I especially like the idea of consumers supporting their favorite artists as a way to convince "Hollywood" to stop making crappy re-makes and franchise movies…if consumers demand better products, they will get them.
Now I'm gonna go cuddle up in bed with my Ink shirt and watch some of the extra features on the DVD :p
I think you guys are doing the right thing by keeping this issue active in other media outlets- saw your letter on techdirt, which is a HUGE audience. For me, if I think a piece of art, music, etc is good, I will gladly pay for it. But, I am in the artistic industry too, so I may get the whole "support the artist" thing more than the general public. There's a real "sense of entitlement" out there that is hard to compete with.
For a distributor to NOT pick up this film is ridiculous. It's amazing to me that they haven't figured it out yet. The public doesn't want another stupid sequel or comic book remake….HELLO!!
Had no idea what I was downloading, and only latched onto the tracker BECAUSE it was so popular. My GF and I LOVED the movie, proceeded to look up Double Edge Films and order a DVD, and bought the soundtrack on iTunes. I admit I download a fair number of movies, but to be honest – most of them are crap. In INK's case though, I'm more than happy to support the artist after the fact by buying a hard-copy, and if it makes it to theaters I'll go see it there too.
Congratulations on a great project, and I sincerely hope that you see a return on the investment! You deserve it.
I wonder if Hollywood or the press associated with it would be commenting if you had purposefully released it in digital format for free? Is this simply a matter of 'being too small of a fish' for THR and Variety? Or is it truly something they purposefully ignore so as to not justify the consumer phenomenon. Probably a little bit of both. Again I find myself asking if you had done this with purpose what would the results be? That is the model they are using for television… release for free on their websites then sell them in digital and hard copy compilations. South Park allows 1 week of free viewing, then they take it off the site for a month, and then the rights for internet distribution go to Matt and Trey which they then return it to free viewing.
Either way, this journey you are on is inspiring and educational for those of us cheering you on in Colorado and who share your same aspirations.
Regarding your three ideas about why piracy exists, I believe all three are true. Piracy was always an issue when I worked in the entertainment software business. The first mass-market word processing software, Word Perfect, became the defacto standard BECAUSE it was the MOST pirated piece of software ever. It took years and years for Microsoft Word to supplant them, and when it did that was the free market at work.
Absolutely some people just want things for free. But right now we have wholesale online acquisition of motion picture content through means not embraced by the content delivery organizations. That to me indicates a huge audience enabled to receive and digest media in a myriad of formats at their own discretion that aren't empowered to by the big content providers. This is an opportunity, not a problem.
Stamping out piracy with legislation is NOT going to create a spike in sales. People who want to pay nothing believe the stuff they're downloading for nothing is WORTH nothing, and won't pay for it regardless. You have to assume that. Maybe 10% of the people who downloaded INK will buy or donate to your production company, and that's optimistic.
That said, anything that increases the general audience's awareness of you and your art is DEFINITELY a good thing. Make a lot of noise, collect the email addresses of the faithful, and keep making excellent movies. What you want is to become a household name. That kind of market penetration can't be disputed…
In a world where some of us have bought the same CD countless amounts of times because of a new remaster or the countless VHS and DVD copies of movies because of a new directors commentary or extended release. The consumer is looking for a cheaper way to go. I have at least five different copies of blade runner including the blu-ray which has them all and that's just one of many selections. Now days I choose what I want to buy and after seeing Ink I went online and ordered a signed Blu-ray. As I stated in other blogs 90% of what is downloaded is pure crap. I being a editor like to watch everything but some stuff is just not worth the download time. We now live in a world where the download is the the norm, no more getting suckered into going to a movie or buying one because of the trailer and realizing the trailer was the best parts of the movie. so get on board
First as a filmmaker I have become concerned that the average film audience member is completely in-the-dark about what it really takes to make a film and how hard it is for fimmakers (esp. indies) to survive while making one.
Second, this post has inspired me to write one in the next couple of days titled "The 'Walmart-ing' of the film biz" and how the distribution via downloads, cheap DVD's, pirating, netflix, etc is hurting the biz.
Great post. It got me thinking about why I download films. It's not so much because they are free but more because the movies I want to watch are usually hard to find offline. For example, I would have loved to have seen Park Chan Wook's Thirst at the cinema, but the release was so limited over here in the UK that I have yet to see a listing for it outside of London. So I downloaded it. I think these industry types just don't have their finger on the pulse anymore. I love the fact you have set up a donation scheme for Ink I think this business model should be encouraged as I think it's the only one that will weather the storm as it were. Expect my donation soon.
This is a great post. As someone who bought your movie but generally views films online, I can tell you my major reason for piracy is not that I don't want to pay, but I generally can't. I am an extremely poor college student. I spend money on things that will last, or art that I believe may support a cause. DVDs are outrageously priced. When I bought Sympathy for Lady Vengeance on DVD, I was buying from a publisher, not Chan-wook Park, and that morally distances me from the crew. Note that I still bought it, because I believe that small publishing studios bringing forum films to America are very good things. I see movies in theatres, but I only very rarely buy DVDs.
there is a way to donate to the filmmakers – made by the pirate community and very awesome. check out vodo.net
"They don't pay."
Incorrect. I bought the DVD days after downloading the film.
"2.) People want instant and easy access, and/or 3.) People will only pay for what they like."
Much closer to the truth. One of the main reasons I bought the film was because of the very reasonable prices on the website and the fact that I enjoyed the film. Had I not enjoyed it? Hard to say. But look at the real world, don't people often return "shoddy" work to get their money back? The (mainstream, non-pirate) film world has no equivalent. You buy it, you either sell it back to a used DVD store for a much reduced price, or you keep it. You can't return DVD's to stores thanks to all this "fighting piracy" nonsense. So instead what's one of the easiest ways to find out that what you're watching isn't complete crap? Download it first. I highly encourage those "leechers" to then donate to or buy copies of DVD's from their favorite artists. But it's a change in the way the film industry works and utilizes (or fails to) this new technology that needs to change, not those who download as so many often suggest.
I feel like I'm late to the party and all the good liquor is gone. The comments already posted are diverse, poignant and agreeable (to me.) I download. I pay. But to put it bluntly, my money is precious to me because I work too damn hard for it. So, as much as I want to support ANYTHING INDIE, unless the project speaks to me on some level or word-of-mouth from trusted sources is through the roof, my wallet stays locked tighter than a chastity belt. Once in a while something REALLY intrigues me (like Ink and Mission X) and I dust the leather billfold off, pull out a $20 (or credit card) and I'm ready to do business.
Personally — and this may be an unfavorable opinion — I don't think filmmakers should expect our audience to know or care about how much our film cost to make. Audiences care about entertainment and how we, as filmmakers, take them on an emotionally adventure. The value of a film is not measured by its budget, but by its emotional value to the audience (Paranormal Activity, anyone?).
I don't think Hollywood or the industry in general will ever embrace BitTorrent downloading. As you mentioned it would be like signing-off on illegal downloading and would quantify and qualify downloaders as a "real" audience.
But that is where us indies have the advantage. If we make our films smartly and with frugal attention to detail, the BitTorrent audience can be a viable source of income AND funding for future projects. It can be as powerful and important as DVD sales. Most importantly, we won't need Hollywood to take advantage of it as a distribution resource.
Lastly, as much as people will ALWAYS go to the movie theater, there will always be downloading. Why do we, as filmmakers, have to choose one over the other? I'd like my cake and to eat it to, thank you very much
Great post btw! Thanks for creating this forum.
Great post, from great filmmakers, great couple.
Filmmakers will find supporters, fans, but if we all have to get 50m downloads to get a fan in every few hundred thousand people, films will never be able to recoup their costs.
Solution?
I really beleieve the film itself will not be the source of revenue now. (Outside fan bases, supporters) I have watched some successful youtubers who give free content away for years, then have websites where they sell books, calenders, products to a following they have built. They monetize from their passion in various ways.
Now of course, filmmakers really need to earn a lot more to be able to make other films? I think we can, but it will take years of building fans, and accepting the fact that as filmmakers, we are probably going to earn our money from many other areas. The film will simply be the marketing tool to bring people to our physical content
I personally think in my next films, it will have to be six month roadtrips to get the film out there, connect with the audience. Just like bands do. Which I know Kiowa and Jamin have been doing so brilliantly.
I still believe in the long term model of diy/diwo. Not an overnight thing. Also, Lets face it, what would it cost us to get 500,000 eyeballs if there was no bi torrent. It would cost a HUGE amount of cash. Cash we would have to get from industry, and in turn, we would not own our work.
I think this will work, but definately not overnight. I have always seen building an audience as a 3/5 year plan. I personally also want to do industry projects too, so as I can then also hopefully create fans and bring them to the self produced content too. side by side.
Kiowa is right, we dont want to have to fill our films with product placements, but people should support quality films if they really want to see more of them. Even if it is just a $1.
Anybody that says they can't afford a $1, behave! I live in poor community, welfare people, and most of their money is spent on booze, cigarettes, sky subscriptions, nights out!, games! Don't play the violin card! When I was a kid, films, games were a "treat"
Its great Kiowa & Jamin are being so transparent, sharing. My respect for them grows even more by the day.
David
A recent study concluded that people who download music illegally also spend more than those who don't on legal music. I'm going to assume that this holds true with films as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224460/Illegal-downloaders-spend-MORE-music-obey-law.html
You guys are AMAZING! Making history & blazing a path for the rest of us. I just love this analysis-from- spin-cycle, such a change from industry spin. Many many thanks, Marian
I see it's all about Fans.
People spend lot of time in internet communities. These communities are internatinal and border free. If in your virtual circle of friends something is labeled "cool", you want it. You want it *now* because next week there is a new things that's "cool".
At Europe that means you wait for the Hollywood movie to come to theatre near you for months. Your region-coded DVD comes after one year. If the movie is a big hit, it will show in TV-broadcast in two years already. In that time you've had 104 new "cool" things, you've grown 10% older and that thing isn't really that cool no more.
With bittorrent, the search, the download and watching the movie is all done in one evening and you are part of the community with your own view of "cool" again.
I can buy things from Amazon with only couple of clicks and couple of minutes of my time. I haven't seen anything as easy for downloadable films. iTunes could work, but there isn't really anything in there. Not in my country anyways.
For the point of "not willing to pay"; I'd say people pay incredible amounts of money while running after what is labeled "cool" around you, whether it is Hannah Montana -mechandise or a new Porsche that makes your neighbour green of envy.
IMO, one of the biggest reasons you aren't getting the amount of donations you might expect from such a massive amount of downloaders is that the people downloading don't know that there is the option to donate.
Most people will download Ink from a torrent site purely because of it's popularity. The only thing they will see before downloading will be the page they download from.
Some of the people who have liked your movie through finding it this way may go to the effort of tracking down the creators to send a donation your way, but really that would take too much effort, and people just don't care enough to do it. I suspect the majority of your donations have came from people who have read news articles about you embracing the piracy, such as that TorrentFreak one that went up the other day. Those, and the massive fans who could be bothered to make the effort.
If however, you uploaded the movie to the torrent sites yourself, you could stick a link to donate through on the download page, and get more donations because it's easy for people to donate that way. You'd also get the opportunity to convince people WHY they should donate.
You have said before that you knew your movie was going to get pirated. You may as well have beat them to it and put yourself in a better position to make $
.
Probably the best thing you can do now is to find all the uploads of the movie, and post a comment on them all asking for donations.
super interesting! i had no idea that you can track pirate downloads! it is amazing that Hollywood would ignore such numbers!?!?!?!?!?
My boyfriend found out about INK because of the buzz it was getting in the online downloading community and after looking up a trailer we were both really interested and excited to see it. After seeing it, we both have the bluray disk on our Christmas lists!
I definitely think that with music and movies consumers are more selective about what they actually spend money on. For me, there are so few things being made in music and movies that I really love (or rather, few things that are easy to find because of record companies and distributors being more interested in easy marketing, like you mentioned in the post) that when I find something exciting and well-done, I will gladly pay the money to support the artists who produced it and to have a copy for myself.
I think this is true of much of the downloading community. I think putting an end to internet piracy would only usher in the demise of all sales for both the music and movie industry.
Thank you for this masterful, exciting piece of art and your voice on the issue of internet downloading communities and audiences. I look forward to checking out more of your work and following your projects in the future!
Well, count me as another free viewer who bought the deluxe set after watching the film and subsequently finding the website and the available merchandise.
Making it available on your own site and making it easy to pay is a good step; I have absolutely nothing against paying for art, but I'm getting more and more reluctant about having my money going to the various less ethical elements of the industry. It's getting to the point where one would like a product branding for where as little as possible to no money goes to middle men, the MPAA or lobbyist organizations.
The financing issue is a difficult one to solve, especially for films for which there are few natural for-hire revenue sources like concerts and the expenses (still) tend to be fairly significant even in the best case.
Attempting to prevent copying is a dead end; besides the antipathy that it causes there are a number of technical reasons too long to go into here for why it's ultimately futile and why such sharing will only become more ubiquitous and prevalent.
One strategy would perhaps be to move towards automatic licensing and mandatory revenue sharing (forfeiting control, but always receiving a share of any revenue related to the product, somewhat like how radio works). Value added distribution points will always require some revenue, meaning that a share will always go to the producers.
Products as good as Ink, that manage a similar control of their budget, may perhaps make it through the sheer desire for merchandise and the pride of saying and showing that I paid for this, doing my part to make the producers make more of it.
But Ink is a rarity in today's film industry; it's not that rare to hear viewers say that not only do they want their money back, they want the hours of life wasted back too. For those surviving on having marketing tricking viewers into the theaters I'm not sure if anything can save them in the end. It's not the 1920's any more, and piracy or no piracy, the number of things to distract people from existence are legion today. No matter how expensive or deserving, each and every creation competes with everything else anyone could be doing at the same time; unoccupied time has, for many, become a premium. Competition has become very, very tough.
Well, on the topic of alternate financing, I'm off to suggest Ink for purchase for a local broadcaster
.
I am excited to see INK. My film, Self Helpless, was made for under 10K and will be intentionally released within the torrent community. We are hoping that we can use that exposure to drive traffic to our website. I guess it is the age old question of piracy versus obscurity.
Either way, keep up the good work, and keep the film world informed. I appreciate being able to learn from other people's experiences.
If the Director/Writer of Ink, Promises more movies from "Within the World of Ink" as well as have the hottie Jennifer Batter included in the next 1 or two movies, i will definitely donate =D
Also, as well as Quinn Hunchar as Emma, maybe a minor role, getting or going to the story of Future Emma, who will be a Great or Badass Storyteller and Fighter and Companion of the Char of Jennifer Batter??? /shrug….. I like this Fantasy world that Jamin Winans has created, or maybe he had help with his friends, i dont know, anyway, this was a good movie, and kept me more interested the movie "Funny People"
DarkKnightNomeD out =P
Double Edge needs to embrace the download community. Downloaders are your audience, and piracy sites are your "distributor." Since you don't have a distributor, no appreciable audience will see or even hear of your movie without the piracy sites.
The only way for most people to see Ink is to a) pay full price for a DVD by some people they've never heard of starring some other people that they've never heard of, or b) download it for free, because it's not playing in anybody's local theatre.
No one who doesn't know the cast or crew, or is really into the latest indie films (I'm assuming this population exists) is going to watch it through Netflix/Blockbuster, because no one knows it exists on Netflix/Blockbuster.
Ink is on fire because of the momentum it has built on illegal downloads. You have to get your money there. The people downloading movies illegally love movies, and they have money, and they will spend it, on movies. You've got to tap that audience with some sort of "donation" link at the download sites.
If you make a good film, you will have an audience, which you do. If you don't get a distributor, you've got to go straight to the audience yourself, which you have, successfully. You've got to create a revenue stream that is appropriate to your audience and distributor. Selling DVDs and ticket sales is what makes money for Hollywood. You're not Hollywood, don't confine yourself to their methods.
I think you are tackling this the right way, just a little late maybe. Get to the download sites and make them work for you.
Well, Im one of those cases of a person outside the US, (Argentina actually) and I bet otherwise the film will get downhere in -literally- years or -possibly- never.
As an independent filmmaker the main issue to me is not to be able to get something for free, but to be able to get it.
My point is, Im not going to donwload a film like "Star Trek" for obvious reasons (in that case I just need to get my butt to any store) but in case of an indie film like these (and with all that hype around it) the download way is the only way to me.
As I said Im an independent filmmaker as well, so I really understand that you people need to get some profit from it. So just tell me how to send you that dollar you´re talking about or just tell me how can I contribute to you and Ill happily give you my support.
By the way, I LOVED THE FILM.
(please excuse my english)
AMAZING MOVIE!
I waited to see it on DVD because I cannot stand the quality of downloaded movies.
Watch what Trent Reznor is doing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njuo1puB1lg
You need a better Communityportal.
Hello. Im from Portugal, and I have to say that i´m very impressed with your movie. It´s one of the best movies I seen this year. Love the story, love the soundtrack, I hope that one day your movie will be shown in Portuguese movie theater´s. Meanwhile, I will buy your DVD and Soundtrack in December for Christmas.
I want to see more of your movies, so buy your movie is the best form to suport. And please try to promote your movie in Portugal, surely you will find an audience in this country.
About the Downloads, it may become a good thing to promote the movie, but if people like, the best way to show is buy the product.
I had Ink on my "to watch" list since its early buzz in the small theater scene. The concept of dream creatures in an urban fairytale is something I'm very interested in. Since there aren't any "small theaters" near me, I grabbed a copy of it from the torrent. If the Ink website didn't mention pirating the movie, I would have probably forgotten about it and never seen it.
However, I did watch it and it was excellent. It was highly original without being overly artsy. It has interesting characters and a very firm mythology to build from. I could see entire novels, RPGs, and comic series based on this world and they would only be scratching the surface of what could be done. It certainly is a modern day "Wizard of Oz" for our generation.
As thanks, I found the Ink website on Google and was able to easily purchase two copies of the DVD, both gifts for friends whom I know will enjoy it as much as I have.
Once I get paid again, I expect to purchase another copy for myself.
Thank you again for sharing your vision with the world. It was very entertaining and I look forward to sharing in the story again soon.
Sincerely,
Anonymous
I download the movie first, if it is any good i will then proceed to buy it (this isn't the case for all movies, a lot i purchase because i have seen the previous movies, as is the case with a lot of sequel movies).
My collection is over 350 DVDs (legal ones) strong.
forgot to mention, i absolutely loved Ink and ordered myself a copy 13 days ago, just waiting for it to be delivered to me here in Australia (will be interested to see what the Classification Board rates it as over here).
and went the hole hog and ordered the pack, not just the DVD.
I think the donation model is the way things should go for sure. It also means that more % of the money will go to the film makers/artists? Or am I being naive? I would gladly support artists that are making QUALITY films/music (and I do) and wonder if part of the reason the industry is so up in arms about piracy is that they cannot control what is out there anymore and get their share of the pie. The playing field is evening out so that no longer can they churn out crap, wrap it up in a ribbon to sell to the masses and cash in. It's good that people are talking about piracy because it makes people aware that film makers and artists still need to make money to survive from their art. But it makes films like Ink easier to access and builds communities around them, bypassing all the marketers and whatever else is tacked on to mainstream films. I'm a big fan of documentaries too and they're really difficult to find on DVD, some never even get released. Every artist should have a Donate button, hopefully this will be the end result of this huge and divisive issue. The comment about linking that URL to the torrent is a good idea.
First, a tip: you should make a non-Flash site to better support visitors that don't use Windows. Couldn't get the site's buttons to work in Firefox on Ubuntu at all. Had to logon my MacBook in order to get my $20 on their way. Also, you should use the Paypal donate button and make it visible.
Over the years, I've bought over 600 DVDs that now are stored in boxes in the attic. DVDs are great for marketing and for controlling market release. They are less great for consumers in today's world though.
I haven't bought such a piece of plastic in over a year now, and have no plans to do it in the future either. Thus, Blu-Ray is dead, as are any other scheme designed to not letting me use the media I bought the way I want, like DRM and region coding.
Here in Sweden, where broadband access has been cheap and available for a decade now, people are getting tired of Hollywood's tireless nagging regarding piracy, and yet they can't even get decent online distribution working here.
Hollywood is digging its own grave and I truly hope that all great creators don't follow them into darkness.
I want more of my money going to creators and less to the distribution chain and their investors. Until we have a well designed micro payment system that isn't fucked up by the MPAA and their likes, donations are the way to go.
And of course, thank you very much for the superb movie experience!
Wow, this is one of the most open minded attitude toward piracy I've seen so far. I'll definetly look into the movie.
BTW, there is an article in a quite big german tech news site: heise.de (sorry, german site). They also stated that it's only possible to get the movie via amazon/UK atm.
Good luck with the promotion! I really hope this will all work out well for you guys! There is still a chance to get translated versions into cinemas, some cult movies are screened several times, propably a nice chance to get some money from the fans you're building right now? (The best cinema ad I've ever seen: ~"This is how movies should be watched!". Right, and piracy is *never* going to replace this. Add some community interaction (we have 1000 fans in Berlin, lets show it there & alert them).
Hey, there is already a Facebook fan group….
I've heard about the movie in the heise.de news article (mentioned above).
When the movie will be officially distibuted in Germany I'll support it! Right now it's not possible for me to donate any money as you need a credit card or paypal… and I do not have any of them.
I haven't even seen the movie yet but after reading about your stance on the bittorrent effect I realized that this is something that needs support. Finally someone tries to look at things from a different perspective. I donated $5 via
paypal. Surely that is not all that much but if everyone did who watched and enjoyed the movie that would certainly work out for you I suppose.
best regards,
T.
Hey …
just came around to watching INK since I read about your opinion on P2P on a news website (so it was the other way around with me) …
I would say that i pay only for what i like when it comes to art or if I want to support somebody (both is the case here) … who would buy a picture that he has not seen or does not like? Who would buy a song he has not heard or does not like?
I also think that copying is very different from wanting hard goods, that are limited by worldly resources, for free since a copy of a song or movie is reproducing without further cost or effort from the originator.
I perhaps would not have bought a song or movie because it's not in my budget so it makes no difference on the money side at all … this in my opinion is not a general "get all 4 free" attitude but a "pay for what you like and what you support" attitude … look what "pay for everything, wether you like it or not" has gotten us … a lot of crappy and mediocre movies, tv series and songs produced by some greedy little hobbits of the music and tv industry who need to pay for their next lamborghini …
I also really liked the fact, that you see exposure as an indicator of
success and not only the money, although i admit that i can see why money as a success factor may be more appealing
to make matters short: I loved your movie and have instantly contributed by ordering a Blu-Ray … i really think about getting the soundtrack on iTunes too … so your concept works and you should stick with it!
keep up the good work!
best wishes from germany!
Manuel
I think you are right with all 3 points. Maybe the "free" part could be replaced by "try before buy".
But for me, it's easy access and pay willingly for the experience.
An old friend of mine is a music producer, writer and DJ and is having similar thoughts. I think it works for music, too:
http://www.kniteforcerevolution.com/about/in-defense-of-filesharing
I watched it on Netflix last night. I've got to give it time but it may be the most moving movie I've ever seen. Incredible. Thanks for making it. I'm having friends over to watch it tonight.
Well, I watched this on netflicks for free because it looked interesting, and my daughter and I have been weeping for an hour. I don't have any cash left since I spent it all on being Santa next week, but my birthday is next month, and I am going to ask for a t-shirt and the dvd. If you build it, folks will come. I am going to tell everyone I know about Ink.
I just saw Ink on Hulu.com, and I was blown away by the originality, the vision… you could see every penny of budget up on that screen creating a film experience that has really touched me. We are in the process of ordering the DVD as we speak and I'm definitely going to be keeping an eye on Mr. Winans in the future!
I wonder sometimes if we won't wind up back to a few centuries ago when works of art were funded by wealthy patrons. The film would simply be paid for up front. Instead of government art grants, there could be some serious tax deductions for private individuals supporting the arts in this manner. Not just rich folks, but collectives of people could pool their resources, like a PAC. Not a Political Action Committee but a, um… Patron Arts Community?
It would be interesting to try- a pilot program at a state level maybe- but hoping for anything new and clever from a government these days is a lost cause I fear. The 21st century seems to have brought less outside the box thinking than ever.
Loved the film. I streamed it via Netflix. Do you get anything for that? I could watch it again.
I downloaded the movie… watched it. Cried profusely several times. Finished the movie. Called several friends to tell them about it. Immediately bought it on Blu-Ray, bought the soundtrack off Amazon, ordered the tee-shirt and movie poster, and then watched the movie again that night with some friends.
Had I not downloaded it on a whim, I would've never been exposed to it.
Beautiful job.
Like so many others, I came across the movie on a filesharing site.
a couple of days ago actually.
In the original blog post, you stated the theories that:
" 1.) People want stuff for free, and/or 2.) People want instant and easy access, and/or 3.) People will only pay for what they like. Which one of these is true?"
Stating the obvious, there's no one answer, different people will have different views/motives.
As for myself, I want easy instant access, and I will pay for what I really liked.
I got the movie quickly from a filesharing site.
I greatly enjoyed it.
As a consequence of that, I ordered a Blu-Ray copy of Ink.
I can't speak for the rest, but THIS direct sale came from the "enemy"
I own about 500 DVDs and have downloaded maybe 1000 more.
Why did I download? For three reasons:
1. I couldn't afford to buy them all. I only have money for the realy jewels among the films
2. Many films weren't worth the price. A move you watch once and think "well… hmm… it was ok" is something different that one, you watch once a month for some years
3. I didn't know anything about the movie and wanted to watch it by myself before deciding to buy it.
I doubt the industry in total has lost a single Dollar through me. I wouldn't have bought more films if I hadn't downloaded any. I'd rather bought less as I never heared about the good movies i stumbled over, then.
I download frequently, mostly what I would not see in the movies, or would not care to pay for because I think they would suck. So, for me, there are (good) movies, for the theaters. And bad (or unavailable) ones, for downloading.
The thing that the movie and music industries don't understand is that piracy can not be beat. It is as predictable as the fact that the internet will still be there when you wake up in the morning.
Some artists (like Trent Reznor) have realized this and are taking brave new approaches to their brand and marketing schemes:
There is an easily found youtube interview with Reznor where he describes his change in marketing philosphy and the successes and pitfalls after his last (free) album release.
I highly suggest you check it out.
I myself grabbed ink via torrent.
I liked it so much that now I'm going to buy it on bluray.
The pirate community needs a crew of basically free consultants that jump on every indie film seeing massive downloads to (1) advises the film makers on profiting from the pirates and (2) make comments on file sharing sites and blogs to publicize the donation system (or whatever). It'll greatly benefit the pirate community on the long run if the indie film maker can pay off their films when those films are a pirate hit.
Hi, I downloaded Ink after seeing an ad on Youtube. After watching the film I done a bit of digging to find your site and promptly ordered both the DVD & The soundtrack. I'm not a serial DLer of films and when I do it usually because I've missed the Cinema showings and am too impatient to wait for the DVD. However the majority of the (not always mind you) I will pick up the DVD when it's on sale.
I'm a musician and offer all my work for free to DL as the market is so swamped there seems no way to monetize what I do, instead I've built a moderate following of "fans" that really appreciate what I do and give. I understand you can't do that in the film industry due to the costs and time involved in making a feature length production. I know piracy is wrong but I feel it a shame that larger distributors don't (more like wont) recognize that for the small guys it provides and proves there is an audience, in your case a very large one, that would be willing to pay if the film could get the backing it deserves.
Any way enough of my ramblings.
I my view you have created a modern classic and easily one of my favourite films ever made.
(also the music is incredible and I can't stop listening to it!)
I think you're on the brink of this going pretty mainstream. Right now you're still in a "…and they tell their friends, and so on , and so on , and so on" phase. I know I fell in love with this movie three days ago and already have ten friends signing up for netflix just to watch it (which I believe you get money for? Hopefully? I'm not quite sure how that works). But stay strong and have faith. You guys have produced something better than I've seen come out of Hollywood for years. You're destined for greatness. Just breath.
What an amazing film. I watched it on download like 3 times but since have recently made purchase from your website. I'm in the UK so hope it gets here soon! keep up the good work and your music is brilliant. You should be recognised and hitting big time in my opinion!
I am an LA native and a Hollywood professional from an industry family (my dad was and actor and my mom a casting director) who worked for 30 years as a production designer and now teaches at a film school.
The cinema business model is in as rapid flux as production technology, which is exploding. Frankly, as an artist, I have always been offended by how much of the proceeds from our efforts ends up in the pockets of middle men.
I have hopes that the business model that finally emerges from this transformation will be one where the artist and their audience are in an authentic community, where artists will get the bulk of the money that their audience is willing to pay, and that the audiences will fundamentally determine the type of material and the artists who are successful.
If the anti piracy arguments were really valid, then publicly-funded libraries would have made authors obsolete. Brewster Kahle has pointed out that anything that can be copied will be copied, and rightly so. He says the only thing we will be able to monetize will be those things that cannot be copied, like relationships and access.
I love the idea that all knowledge and all art will be available to everyone all the time, I think this can precipitate a quantum leap in spiritual and intellectual evolution of our ziet geist. But I want my colleagues and students to continue to be able to support themselves making art, and I want to see an increased quantity, variety and quality of art in the world.
I'm not all together sure how this will come to be, but I have some faith that an evolutionary process that draws on the amazingly powerful cultural appeal artists seem to have, the good will of audiences, and enlightened legislation will lead to this world of more and better art and artists.
When it comes to pirating films-
The two reasons I pirate films are thus: either I cannot get instant access to the movie any other way (Netflix, Hulu, iTunes) OR I cannot obtain the film any other way (purchasing a US region DVD…example, The Gate II was never released on DVD in the US, and my DVD players are region locked, so Bittorrent it is). I would much rather pay the people that made the film so I can own it, that way I can make my digital copy for streaming around my house, iPad on the go, etc, but the unfortunate fact of the matter is that some of the best films just dont get US distribution. Saw this on Netflix last night, loved it like I have not loved a film in a decade.